Maybe your right and this improvement suggestion is not able to do in a compatible patch.

Gunn if LFS is not a Simulation than what else is it?

If I go to the LFS Main Site it says: "The Racing Simulator"

I didnt say or imply my opinion is the undenieable truth joen, your making that up, cheap shot.
Everything I say is of course my opinion, just like everything anybody else says.

And why do you constantly think everything is said towards you personally when you werent quoted?

Quote from EvilVendingMachine :

ooo, I think this thread just became deep and meaningfull.
Sarcasm aside, I see a good number of road course lovers who bash oval racing,
yet i rarely see any oval lovers bash road course racing.
Hmm, something to think about.

Thats mainly because most Oval Racing Fans are dedicated Motorsport Fans who know how to enjoy different types of Motorsport. While most Road Racing Fans just dont know much about Oval Racing.

You cannot explain to a Soccer Fan that Racing F1 is exciting and difficult if he doesnt want to know about it, same goes to Road Racing Fans who bash Oval Racing, most of them just dont know about Oval Racing and if there ignorant they start bashing something they have no clue about. The funny thing is, some of them think there smart saying Oval Racing is easy, while they are totally close minded and cannot think out of the box = :hide:

Last edited by George Kuyumji, Mon 26 Mar 2007, 22:32.

Quote from joen :

Yes, me too. But we would all immediately download a new fictional track as soon as it was available as well. So no big difference there.

No we wouldnt. Be true to yourself. For the big majority of people, a real life Track will always be more interesting than a Fantasy one.

Quote from joen :

...please actually try to understand what is said. Neither me or anyone is saying that there should be no real life things in LFS, let alone be taken out. Some people just don't see real life based content as a necessity. Your twisting a statement completely to the other extreme, not following some members' logic. Or can you point me to a post in this thread of someone saying real life cars to be taken out?

Would I like the ring or any other RL track in LFS? Sure, the more content, the better. Do I feel LFS is incomplete without them? No.

"try to understand" LOL!! I dont know what you are on about, but take a look around the LFS Forums dude, there are LFS Fans who actually think LFS is better off without real life Tracks. That is laughable. I'm sure Scavier knows how important and great real life Tracks would be in LFS, its just like real life cars, and I'm sure they will come at some point in the future. A Simulation is just not complete without them. It might not be a total necessity at this point of development, BUT IT IS A NECESSITY FOR A SIMULATION. Just like real life cars like the BMW F1 car. What is a Simulation?

sim·u·la·tion
[noun] The reproduction of the essential features of something, for example, as an aid to study or training.

A reproduction of a real life Track is an essential feature of a Racing Simulation, its just the way it is, and I'm sure the way it will be in LFS in the future.

I think the way the LFS AI learns and improves is amazing.

I'm wondering, how long does the AI learn more, there must be some lap limit where they just cant improve anymore?

It's nice that we can have setup names in different colors, but having a Setup filter with the Option of copieng Setups from other Tracks, and having only relevant Setups for the track and car showing up would be a whole nother thing.
I'm wondering what Scavier thinks about this, and if he could add that in a compatible Patch.

Last edited by George Kuyumji, Mon 26 Mar 2007, 20:47.

There is no contradiction in what I said.

LFS doesnt NEED real Tracks, because it is doing GOOD without them, BUT it would be GREAT if LFS would have real Tracks.

Lets not kid ourselfs, we would all immediately download a LFS representation of a real Track as soon as it would be available.

Following some LFS Fans logic, we should ask for the Raceabout and the BMW F1 car to be taken out of the Sim, because we dont want representation of real life things.

Quote from Motordirex :

Good. Ovals are lame and theres no fun in them. Michael Schumacher had to stop himself from bashing NASCAR drivers at the Race of Champions a few years back. "They think they are going fast, but..." he said. Laughed my ass off.

The ignorance is amazing.

Racing in an Oval needs alot of skill, thats why F1 drivers struggle there.

If you think you know Oval Racing from LFS, you have no idea, because LFS doesnt have a proper Oval Track.

Going 330 km/h centimeters next to each other, drifting towards a wall at the edge of the Grip limit, sometimes with three cars next to each other is very challenging, thats why Montoya needs to learn alot before he will be good in it.

And Montoya is a Champ Car Champion and won the Indy 500.

Like I said, the ignorance towards Oval Racing is amazing, especially in Europe were alot of people just dont know much about it. And most of the time you cannot explain or reason with these people. They are just like drunken Soccer Fans who try to tell a F1 follower that racing an F1 car is easy.

Quote from Gunn :

There is no barrier to overcome. LFS doesn't need real tracks.

It doesnt "need" it, but it should of course have one. Any serious Simulator should have a real Track.

as soon as you move the mouse its off

I will just quote myself here with some Pictures.

NASCAR RACING 2003 Season by Papyrus has that very nice feature, that when you move with the Mouse over a button and stay there for a second or two a little window appears explaining the function and some General Info regarding this button.

This is very practical when it comes to Setup Changes for example, you dont know how a specific parameter will change the behaviour of the car? Move with the Mouse over it and stay there to see an explanation of what this function will do to the cars handling.

This Information Windows are there in all Screens, like Replay or Options Settings, Car Garage, these little Pop-Up Windows are there in all Menus and whenever you need a Info on a certain function.

It makes the whole Setup in the Garage very explainable for Newbies who have never setted up a car, what does strengthening the front springs do to the car handling? Move with the Mouse over the Spring rates + button to see an explanation of what this change does to the car. The Mouse gives an Info wherever you put it and keep it on the screen.

http://www.lfsforum.net/attach ... id=19618&d=1163595328

http://www.lfsforum.net/attach ... id=19619&d=1163595328

http://www.lfsforum.net/attach ... id=19620&d=1163595328

http://www.lfsforum.net/attach ... id=19621&d=1163595328

Live Speed For?

Aston is Great.
Westhill is Great.
Blackwood is Great.
Fern Bay is Great.
South City is Great.

But the Oval track in LFS is so bad it's not even funny anymore!!!

Anyone who knows a little about this type of Racing, knows about tracks like Atlanta, Texas, Miami, Indianapolis, Dover, knows that the LFS Oval Track has a rubbish layout! No Oval Track in the World does look close to the Kyoto Oval.

We need a decent Oval Track, and a NASCAR Stockcar type of car!!!! *Rant Over* Thank you

I would also like to see the analog Speedometer to be better readable.

Having LFS able to play mp3 files would be nice, but if there are licensing issues about it, it might just not be worth it.

How many peole who Race at the real Nürburgring would love to have a decent Simulation of that Track, for practise purposes, there are people who only picked up Grand Prix Legends because they could drive the Nordschleife on it.
The value of having a real track in a driving Simulation cannot be overestimated, LFS is doing good without it so far, but it would be great and open a whole new Market if it could be used for Training purposes, and I'm sure alot of people would love to practise the Ring virtually and learn the track before they get out and drive it for real.

I have practised the A1 GP Track in Austria for hours on the PC before I drove on it for real, and I felt immediately comfortable and could push the car because I knew the track well before I did my first laps there.

Last edited by George Kuyumji, Sun 25 Mar 2007, 17:47.

Sorry Bob, but I made a Search and couldnt find something specific, so how can one filter the Setups so that only relevant ones to the current car and the track shows up?

Some months ago there has been a Race coverage or something along those lines on TV in Yugoslavia, or was it Croatia? Anyhow it looks like the Yugoslavian LFS community is alive, well and enthusiastic

We have some really great tracks in LFS, but KY Oval is a sad excuse for an Oval Track.

I have downloaded the Inferno Setups, and the Garage is full of them even if they are not related to the track, and Setups have quite short names in LFS, so I dont understand why Setups for other cars and tracks show up at all? Making it all more confusing to me

How anyone could NOT want to have the Nordschleife in a Driving Simulation is totally incomprehensible to me.

There are so many Arcade Racers out there, why shouldnt a Simulation simulate a real Track?

The more Setups I have, the more it gets messy, I would like to suggest that setups are getting saved or sorted somehow, so that only Setups show up in the Garage screen that are related to the current car and the track.

Racing Simulations are all far too cheap, I dont understand why Live for Speed, netkarPro, NASCAR Racing 2003, GPL, Richard Burns Rally, and all those kind of Programs are so cheap, they are not supposed to be Mainstream Software, why on earth does a complex Driving Simulation cost as much as Half Life or Need for Speed???

Flight Simulator X Deluxe costs 70-80 Euro, thats quite alot more than normal Games, then the Scenery Updates, or the Flight SImulator Mods, they costs 30 - 100 Euro or even more, so clearly, the Flight Sim Community have gone a different and the better way than Race Simulations. Because Race Simulations are all too cheap, and that is why our Genre is lacking new content. Simulations are just not worth it from a commercial standpoint unless the Programmers are dedicated Motorsport Fans themselfs and great Programmers at the same time.

Last edited by George Kuyumji, Fri 23 Mar 2007, 21:19.

As others said, due to the way LFS gets developed more money wont change much.

Some years ago the Grand Prix Legends Community collected several thousand dollars to buy Papyrus and Dave Kaemmer a gift. Just to say thank you for that great Sim. I among hundred others also donated 10 Dollars and a small Brabham 1967 F1 car.
Some "trustworthy" person from within the community, his name was Eric Bourgouin or something like that, he collected all that money and gifts and didnt gave it to Dave Kaemmer, after some time he wasnt heard of again.

But a more succesful Donation could happen in LFS, with which you could buy the Devs a Test Day in a Formula car or something like that, I'm sure alot of people would donate for a cool gift.

Quote from BuddhaBing :

Out of curiousity, I contacted Silverstone Circuits Ltd and MotorSport Vision Ltd, the owners of Silverstone and Brands Hatch, Oulton Park, Snetterton, Cadwell Park and Bedford Autodrome respectively, and asked whether they required any licensing agreements and/or fees to use the 3D likeness of their tracks in a software application.

There is a £35-45,000 licensing fee required for the use of the Silverstone circuit and a £10,000 per venue fee for each of the circuits owned by MotorSport Vision Ltd. Additional track hire fees would be assessed for access to the track for photography, surveying and so on.

So, there you have it.

Wow thanks alot, that was some interesting Information.

Looks like alot of small Tracks doesnt require license costs at all, while a GP Track costs really alot.
NetkarPro has Silverstone, Monaco,... without licensing the Track, they dont officially advertise it, but these Tracks are openly available. Hope to see a real Track someday in LFS aswell. While I think the tracks we currently have are excellent in Graphics and Layout, some real life Tracks is always nice in a Simulation.